The Odd Couple
By Capt. Fogg
No, not Felix and Oscar, but Joe and John: Lieberman and McCain. Putative Democrat and the Republican quondam candidate. Often appearing to be on the same side, their opinions drive us to confusion and not to any conclusion.
The right wing outrage machine has been like a chorus of vuvuzelas, blaring accusations that the classified rules of engagement instituted by General McChrystal on his own initiative were in fact forced on him by president Obama and his opposition, despite his sworn public testimony to the contrary, was the reason he was relieved of command. I suspect Joe Lieberman agrees, although I know he knows better.
The policy of trying to reduce the heavy civilian casualties so as to give the US less of the appearance of an invading horde bent on its own objectives and with no concern for innocent life or limb, is misguided says Lieberman; as though to say we shouldn't be concerned to appear as liberators with the best interests of Afghanistan at heart. We shouldn't care that people whose children we've cavalierly blown to hell aren't going to try to make our efforts any easier and so he's advising General Petraeus to shoot first and ask questions later. It's hurting our morale, says he as though 9 years of getting nowhere can be blamed on being the kind of nation we're supposed to be and more importantly as though it were president Obama's fault for worrying too much about worthless Muslim lives.
Perhaps John McCain's statement that even another ten years of war may not be too much to ask of our country, fits with Lieberman's disinterest in having the country we tell ourselves we're helping on our side. Ten more years of shooting up innocent families at weddings, on the streets, in their cars and in their homes will likely draw us into many more decades of war, and that McCain thinks this war is self justifying if not actually morally or functionally satisfying is not beyond conjecture. Another ten years, another 3, 4, 5 trillion dollars and who knows how many more dead: economic and moral collapse -- that should make the country crazy and enough to elect another Republican.
Pretty clever, and to think I thought McCain was an idiot.
(Cross posted from Human Voices)
No, not Felix and Oscar, but Joe and John: Lieberman and McCain. Putative Democrat and the Republican quondam candidate. Often appearing to be on the same side, their opinions drive us to confusion and not to any conclusion.
The right wing outrage machine has been like a chorus of vuvuzelas, blaring accusations that the classified rules of engagement instituted by General McChrystal on his own initiative were in fact forced on him by president Obama and his opposition, despite his sworn public testimony to the contrary, was the reason he was relieved of command. I suspect Joe Lieberman agrees, although I know he knows better.
The policy of trying to reduce the heavy civilian casualties so as to give the US less of the appearance of an invading horde bent on its own objectives and with no concern for innocent life or limb, is misguided says Lieberman; as though to say we shouldn't be concerned to appear as liberators with the best interests of Afghanistan at heart. We shouldn't care that people whose children we've cavalierly blown to hell aren't going to try to make our efforts any easier and so he's advising General Petraeus to shoot first and ask questions later. It's hurting our morale, says he as though 9 years of getting nowhere can be blamed on being the kind of nation we're supposed to be and more importantly as though it were president Obama's fault for worrying too much about worthless Muslim lives.
Perhaps John McCain's statement that even another ten years of war may not be too much to ask of our country, fits with Lieberman's disinterest in having the country we tell ourselves we're helping on our side. Ten more years of shooting up innocent families at weddings, on the streets, in their cars and in their homes will likely draw us into many more decades of war, and that McCain thinks this war is self justifying if not actually morally or functionally satisfying is not beyond conjecture. Another ten years, another 3, 4, 5 trillion dollars and who knows how many more dead: economic and moral collapse -- that should make the country crazy and enough to elect another Republican.
Pretty clever, and to think I thought McCain was an idiot.
(Cross posted from Human Voices)
Labels: Afghan War, Joe Lieberman, John McCain
posted by Capt. Fogg at
10:22 AM
2 Comments:
I don't think our troops blew anybody away in a cavalier fashion, As I told a buddy of mine a few days ago, war is messy, it is not reducable to strict rules, as war is confusion and chaos. In a place where your enemy is invisible, where things and people blow up everywhere, and where many folks who ID an "Enemy" are really just taking care of a grudge...have civillians been killed, yes are our fighting forces in an untenable situation yes, the ONLY solution is to get the hell out...if the kelptocracy created by Karzai and his people can't govern and route the Taliban and its ilk, then THEY don't deserve our blood and treasure
By
tom, at 7:26 PM
I don't disagree at all Tom. We haven't yet seen anything quite like My Lai 4 in Afghanistan to my knowledge, but that Vietnamese massacre also resulted from being in an untenable position, where the enemy looks just like everyone else and anyone could be the enemy and you're taking fire from all sides. I was thinking more of the unmanned aircraft, where the operation is on the other side of the world and the difficulty of knowing just how many civilians will die or who is a civilian or just who is in that car or house has fatal results. I think those casualties number in the thousands and each one is a recruiting poster for al Qaeda and the Taliban. McChrystal was, in the ROE he authored, fully aware of the catch 22 and was trying to keep such casualties to a minimum. If we can't save the locals without killing them we shouldn't be there - and of course there are many reasons we shouldn't be there.
I'm referring also to my previous post and the calumny saying that Obama was the author of the Rules of Engagement, which at any rate are classified and unavailable to the bastard who wrote the article I'm addressing. I'm challenging the lie that McChrystal was fired for objecting to rules he himself wrote and I'm agreeing with the General that it's important not to create new enemies by killing their wives and children and blowing up their homes.
By
Capt. Fogg, at 9:39 AM
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